The Worst “Vegan at a Dinner Party” Experience
This past weekend I had a very interesting experience.
Some family was visiting from out of town, so we had multiple family dinner parties.
John (Co-Founder & CCO of Veganography) and I brought our own vegan food to all the meals.
…Can you already tell where this is going?
“The Dinner Party”
At the first dinner, we were sitting across from someone who married into the family, whom we’d never met before. Let’s call him “Eric.”
We had a very nice and fun dinner, with lively conversations. John and I ate food that was decidedly different from everyone else, but we didn’t say anything about being vegan.
When the hosts came around to serve ice cream bars for dessert, John and I declined the ice cream bars.
Eric looked at us with a somewhat puzzled expression…I could feel the question bubbling to the surface…
Eric then asked, “Hey Emma, are you guys vegan?”
I said, “Yep!”
Eric replied, “Ooooh okay. I’m just now putting this all together. You brought your own food, you said ‘no’ to the ice cream. Okay.”
He paused, as if he was deciding whether or not to continue.
Then he said, “Well, I work for Cargill.”
Cargill is the largest meat producer in the US.
I mean, you just gotta laugh at that point!
Although it’s not everyday that vegan activists have dinner with someone who works for the biggest meat producer in the US, many vegans can relate to this scenario.
Family dinner. Meat, dairy, and eggs on the table. Sharing a meal with people who not only hold opposing beliefs, but the evidence of their opposition is right in front of you in the form of dead bodies on the table…
It can be triggering for many vegans.
When Eric said that he works for Cargill, I sincerely laughed because the irony of the situation was honestly hilarious.
What To Say?
Then, I wracked my brain for what to say in response.
It’s a family dinner. I’ve never met him before. There are other people at the table. This is not the place to make a scene (I’ve made plenty of scenes in the past - not once did it result in a meaningful step towards veganism for the other person).
I know that animal welfare, animal rights, animal liberation, etc is not a viable topic. Our viewpoints are too different on that subject to have any kind of amenable conversation in which we can find some common ground.
Although animal liberation is what’s most close to my heart, the conversation would just not be productive. I wouldn’t convince him of anything.
Because in order to concede to my points, he would basically have to admit that his job, how he spends his days, and how he provides for his family is evil.
And that’s just not gonna happen.
Health is a more viable approach. Although there is so much misinformation regarding health, it’s really an uphill battle. I have all the points memorized and can present a very logical argument with peer reviewed evidence, but it challenges what he has believed his entire life.
Health is really a topic for a more one on one conversation.
So that leaves the environment.
Most people nowadays know that animal agriculture is destructive to the environment. Most people will concede on that point. Climate change also affects everyone. It’s something that all of us have a vested interest in.
The environment is honestly the most approachable way to talk about veganism and animal agriculture.
Especially to someone that works at Cargill!
Fortunately, I had recently read that Cargill has invested in Upside Foods, one of the first two companies approved by the FDA to sell cultivated (lab grown) meat in the US.
Cultivated meat presents a very promising opportunity for a vegan future. Cultivated meat (and eventually cultivated dairy and eggs) has the potential to completely replace animal agriculture, while still providing people with the animal products they love and not harming animals and reducing climate impact significantly.
It’s pretty exciting. And Cargill recognizes that the consumer market is starting to shift toward these “vegan” alternatives. That’s why they’ve invested in cultivated meat.
So I knew that cultivated meat was my “in.”
I began by saying, “Wow! Okay! Well I read recently that Cargill has invested in cultivated meat, so that is really exciting!”
I think he was relieved that I didn’t immediately jump down his throat about animal liberation.
He responded by agreeing that cultivated meat is very exciting. Someone else at the table had never heard of cultivated meat, so I gave a brief explanation. You can read more about that in this blog.
I explained that cultivated meat has the potential to reduce the carbon impact of the meat industry by 92% and land usage by 90%, according to the 2023 Cultivated Meat Report.
Eric said, “Oh yeah. I’m not a dummy. I know that animal agriculture is bad for the environment.”
He went on to explain that Cargill is a corporation. They just want to make money. They don’t care what they sell.
But in the past through to now, people are demanding cheap meat. So that’s what Cargill provides.
Eric said that when the people demand something different, Cargill will sell something different. It’s the simplest explanation of supply and demand.
He was kind of agreeing with me that animal agriculture is bad (for the environment).
The Importance of Consumer Demand
I’m not saying that big corporations like Cargill are blameless. They shouldn’t be killing billions of animals per year - from an ethical, environmental, and humanitarian perspective. Full Stop.
And I’m not saying that it’s 100% the consumer’s responsibility to change the world.
There are many different factors involved in creating change. Legislation, regulation, consumer demand, supply chain management, public opinion, production capacity, etc. all have their part to play. It’s a synergistic process involving many different stakeholders.
But this was an interesting confirmation from the meat industry that consumer choice is, in fact, extremely important in creating a more compassionate and sustainable supply chain.
If there is enough consumer demand for different products (plant based and/or cultivated), Cargill will change their supply chain.
‘Cause they just want that cash money!
The conversation was actually extremely pleasant. We found common ground. We agreed. He even conceded that animal agriculture is “bad” (for the environment).
We Are A Representative of the Vegan Movement
And most importantly, John and I gave him a positive experience of vegans.
So often, vegans are characterized as militant, idealist, and extremist. We showed him that vegans are actually very well informed, practical, and logical. We’re willing to listen to others and work together to create a better future for everyone. Including animals, the environment, and yes, even humans!
Now, I can’t say for certain, but I’m pretty sure that Eric’s perspective on veganism changed in a positive way as a result of that conversation.
We represented the vegan movement positively.
Every time we talk with someone about veganism, we are representing the movement. It’s not fair. It shouldn’t be like that. But it is.
People take their experience with you as “a vegan” and extrapolate that to the entirety of the movement. You become their idea of “a vegan.”
So it’s important to always be respectful, kind, and logical.
We can absolutely disagree with people and present opposing viewpoints, as we did with Eric. But it has to be done in a respectful and kind manner.
How to Respond to an “Appeal to Futility” Argument
As evidenced by this story, every choice we make truly matters. Big corporations are listening to what we want. And we vote for what we want with how we spend our dollars.
Most people reading this are probably vegan or vegan adjacent. The consumer choice/shifting the market approach is an extremely useful argument against the common “appeal to futility” retort to veganism.
Many people try to argue that their individual choice doesn’t matter. They try to argue that not eating meat at one meal doesn’t save any animals or change the system.
But it does matter. Choices compound.
The consumer choice argument is a means to empower people in their choices.
What they do matters. THEY matter. THEY can create change by voting with their dollars everyday.
When talking with someone who is trying to push the “appeal to futility” argument, remind them of the laws of supply and demand. Remind them that corporations just want to make money. They’ll sell whatever they think we’ll buy. It’s our job to show them what we’ll buy.
If enough people understand this, then we can ALL create a kinder future for all living beings, together.
Even Cargill 😜
Sources: